Episode 120 | The AI Hat Podcast
Hosted by Mike Allton
Most revenue teams have an AI problem - and it's not the one they think. It's not that they need more tools. It's that they keep buying tools before they've fixed the process underneath them. The result? A graveyard of failed pilots, a team that's skeptical, and a pipeline that still isn't moving. Sound familiar?
Dan Knowlton, co-founder of Knowlton Marketing, has been living this challenge in real time - as an agency owner trying to grow a business, manage a team, and figure out AI all at once. In this conversation, Dan doesn't hand you a polished framework. He hands you something better: an honest account of what's actually working, what's failing, and how his agency recently won a pitch with one of Europe's largest health and wellness brands because AI caught the objections he would have missed by hand.
You'll Learn:
- Why "shiny tool syndrome" is killing your AI ROI - and the one question that cuts through it
- How to use AI meeting tools like Fathom to transform your sales discovery process and close more deals
- Where AI should never replace humans - and where it absolutely should
- How to run a simple time audit that reveals exactly where AI can reclaim hours in your team's week
- How one agency is building internal AI fluency by treating it like a client project
Chapters:
- 00:00 Manual Sales Discovery
- 01:00 Podcast Theme Intro
- 02:31 Why AI Pilots Fail
- 03:46 Shiny Tool Syndrome
- 05:29 Problem First Approach
- 06:05 AI-Powered Pitching
- 07:24 Transcripts Close Deals
- 10:05 Where AI Shouldn't Pretend
- 13:59 Humans Plus AI Creativity
- 16:47 Overcoming Team Pushback
- 19:42 Shadow AI Governance Ad
- 20:56 Tool Stack and Evaluation
- 27:06 Making Time for AI Learning
- 29:25 Workflow Audit to Start
- 32:19 Wrap Up and Where to Connect
- 33:18 Final Outro
If your team is still buried in admin and your AI pilots keep stalling, it's time to look at the process underneath the tools. Start with the free Executive Guide to Shadow AI - your blueprint for turning ungoverned AI risk into a sanctioned competitive advantage. Download it free at theaihat.com/shadow-ai.
Full Episode Transcript
(Lightly Edited)
Your AI Stack is Broken: A Revenue Leader's Framework for Success with Dan Knowlton
[00:00:00] Dan Knowlton: Pre-AI, it used to be very manual. We'd have a virtual call or a meeting, ask discovery questions, really try and understand our potential customers' challenges and pain points and, and what they're currently doing and what they're currently focused on, their goals, what success looks like. Asking lots of questions and manually noting down or trying to manually note down all of these things whilst having a meeting with them and trying to show that you're interested and, and then going away with the team and then re-communicating all that, all that information to your internal team to then come up with a pitch, to then create that pitch, and it's a very manual, long-winded process, and then delivering that pitch.
[00:00:39] And since the introduction of AI, we've really fast-tracked that process through using tools like Fathom to record those calls, transcribe them, help come up with briefs for our creative team in a very efficient way that are really aligned with all of the challenges that the potential customers actually said they've got, so we're not missing anything at all
[00:01:00] Mike Allton: Mike's got The Hat, the AI kind. Unlocking power in business, you'll find. Cut through the hype, explore the tech. Every week, new ideas to check.
[00:01:35] Allton leads us on a digital quest. AI secrets, he'll always invest. Tune in tight, don't miss a beat. Knowledge, groove, keep you on your feet. Listen up! To the AI flow. Business growth, here we go. Cuttin' edge insights, that's the plan. With The AI Hat, you'll understand.
[00:02:09] Greetings program. Welcome to the AI Hat Podcast, the resource for revenue teams who are ready to stop being the bottleneck in their own business. Each week, we architect the simple AI operational systems that eliminate admin drag and reclaim your time, freeing you and your team to focus on the high-value work that truly scales your revenue.
[00:02:27] I'm your host, Mike Allton. Subscribe and let's build your digital team together. Now today, revenue teams are drowning in AI tools, yet quota attainment is dropping. The hard truth, most organizations are doing it backwards. They're buying shiny new AI solutions before mapping out the processes they need to fix.
[00:02:46] It's why 95% of AI pilots fail to deliver ROI, leaving revenue leaders stuck in what I call pilot purgatory. Today's guest knows this challenge intimately. Dan Knowlton has built Knowlton Marketing into a powerhouse agency by doing exactly what most companies don't, starting with workflow architecture before tool selection.
[00:03:06] His agency has helped countless organizations move beyond random tool collection to build revenue-generating AI implementation frameworks that actually work. As co-founder and marketing director, Dan has transformed how agencies approach AI adoption, focusing on process-led implementation that delivers measurable results.
[00:03:22] Hey, Dan, welcome to the show.
[00:03:25] Dan Knowlton: Hello. Happy to be here, Mike. How are you?
[00:03:28] Mike Allton: I am fantastic. So great to see you on the pod. We've gotten together so many times for events, uh, across the pond, as we say here in the US, but I love that you're here and you're ready to show us some things. But I wanna start with a little bit of what not to do and, and get people kind of- Mm
[00:03:45] in the right framework here. What do you think is like the biggest mistake that you've seen some of the revenue teams that you've- Yeah ... worked with make when they're implementing AI tools?
[00:03:53] Dan Knowlton: Yeah, I guess the, the, the, the transparent thing is these are mistakes we've made as well, so, ... I think the key one is like the new shiny tool syndrome, like seeing...
[00:04:03] And I, I still struggle with this sometimes, like seeing something that, like an AI tool that can do a really cool thing and then just thinking, "Let's put some time into understanding that and giving it a go," but then not actually thinking, "How is this gonna benefit our business? Is it gonna save us time?
[00:04:18] Is it gonna make us more efficient or effective? Or is it just gonna make a weird cartoon video of me that I can post somewhere that doesn't actually do a huge amount for our business?" I think, yeah, that, that's one of the biggest challenges, just trying the new shiny tools out there.
[00:04:33] Mike Allton: Yeah, and it's, it's a bit funny to me because I've always been against trying shiny new tools, and I, I, um, it must just be my nature.
[00:04:41] I did an interview, uh, way back in season one where we were talking about playing and how important it is to just go into mindset with a... Go into trying AI with a mindset of play. Mm. And I could not relate with that message at all. Someone sends me an Instagram Reel about a, a, a new video generator that turns you into a cartoon or something like that.
[00:04:59] That has no interest to me whatsoever, 'cause my first thought is, "I'm sorry, how does that help me with my business, my content? How does that help me relate to my audience?" It doesn't to me, but- Yeah ... yeah, other people feel differently, so.
[00:05:13] Dan Knowlton: Yeah. I feel like, like the biggest thing I struggle with in all elements of my business is my time.
[00:05:18] So if there's something that, uh, well, when I feel like I'm not spending my time effectively doing what you've just spoken about, it frustrates me. So yeah, I'm, I'm the same. I can't really relate to that.
[00:05:29] Mike Allton: Well, one, walk us through your approach to AI implementation, either internally or with some of the clients that you've worked with.
[00:05:35] Dan Knowlton: Mm. I think the first thing is really understanding the problem you're trying to solve, right? Um, and this is kind of, going against that approach of just trying everything out there. It's really thinking, like, what, what challenge have you got in your business that you're, that you're trying to make more efficient or more effective?
[00:05:55] And then you can start to look at the tools you can use to help solve that challenge that you've got. I mean, there's, there's a whole range of use cases and things that I can share with you if, if you're up for it, Mike. One of them that, that has been really effective for us is to do with our kind of whole pitching process.
[00:06:12] Pre-AI, it used to be very manual. We would have a virtual call or a meeting, ask discovery questions, really try and understand our potential customers' challenges and pain points and, and what they're currently doing and what they're currently focused on, their goals, what success looks like.
[00:06:31] Asking lots of questions and manually noting down or trying to manually note down all of these things whilst having a meeting with them and trying to show that you're interested and, and then going away with the team and then re-communicating all that little information to your internal team to then come up with a pitch, to then create that pitch, and it's a very manual, long-winded process, and then delivering that pitch.
[00:06:51] And, and since the introduction of AI, we've really not just kind of fast-tracked that process through using tools like Fathom to record those calls, transcribe them, help come up with briefs for our creative team in a very efficient way that are really aligned with all of the challenges that the potential customers literally said they've got, so we're not missing anything at all.
[00:07:14] Yeah, there's just some incredible ways that you can use, use these tools to, to make what you're doing more efficient and knowing that problem as step one is really key.
[00:07:24] Mike Allton: I love that example so much. In fact, I did a whole episode all about that exact process, how AI is so valuable. 'Cause I've been in that shoe.
[00:07:32] I've, I've done, remote calls, video calls, phone calls. Heck, I used to do sales in person. I used to sell swimming pools and hot tubs, right? And I know from all those experiences that as the salesperson, I'm trying to actively listen, right? Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm listening to everything that prospect is saying.
[00:07:49] Maybe they walked into my, my swimming pool shop, right? And they're looking for something for their backyard. Mm-hmm. I'm listening to what they're saying, but I'm also trying to actively think about what I'm going to say next. Mm-hmm. If they mention something that I kind of flag as an objection, how am I gonna overcome that when they finish talking?
[00:08:06] Mm. What am I... Am I also thinking about what, what pool am I gonna put them in? What size sounds like it's gonna be for them? How much am I gonna charge them, right? I'm trying to actively think about all those things- Yeah ... which means I'm always missing little things that they mentioned, right? Right.
[00:08:21] They might have mentioned, oh, they've got a girl in high school that's taking swimming lessons or something like that, right? Mm-hmm. And then I, I just totally missed that point. And yet, that one thing might have been the thing that I could have come back at them as- Yeah ... the way to seal the deal. "Oh, your girl's taking swimming lessons?
[00:08:38] That's fantastic. She won't ever have to do that again 'cause you've got a pool in your backyard- Mm ... that you can spend all this quality time with her. You don't have to drive them across town. You don't have to pay somebody else." Whatever. That's one of the things that AI has completely solved because you've got the transcript which flawlessly dictates- Yeah
[00:08:54] every single word, and the AI reads every single word completely. Never misses a beat in terms of picking up on one little thing that somebody has said and say, "Hey, you know what? Let's make sure we reflect this back in the proposal to them."
[00:09:09] Dan Knowlton: That is exactly it. And, and for us, that has been so effective, Mike.
[00:09:12] Like, we've literally just won a pitch with one of Europe's largest health and wellness brands, and one of the specific bits of feedback they gave from us in the pitch is they were like, we really nailed some of the key objections that they had in that call and addressed that, that we understand their concerns and how we're gonna overcome those.
[00:09:31] And like you say, if I was just writing notes down, we would've missed some of those. Like, you can't, you can't do what you're saying, like prepare, prepare how you're going to respond to what they're saying to you in an effective way to help ultimately sell to them, whilst also listening to the little nuances that they mention that can contribute to you winning a pitch further down the line.
[00:09:50] You just can't do it all. But with AI and a transcript, you can.
[00:09:56] Mike Allton: Yeah. And we're, we're seeing incredible, uh, increases in improvements and closure rates and, and not only just the time saved, but like you said, it's actually more effective. So, aside from that, how do you actually figure out, uh, which processes, which problems to solve, which workflows might actually need AI automation versus human touch?
[00:10:16] Dan Knowlton: Yeah, this is a good question. I think my, my general rule of thumb is, and again, this can be quite personal, so I don't know what your opinion is on this, Mike, but I-- the one thing I really don't like using AI for is, trying to like pretend to be me or be a human. Things like, um- Mm. ... things I really don't like are like on LinkedIn, sort of AI-generated comments from people who are pretending that they read your post and they're responding with something, their, their thoughts and opinions.
[00:10:45] I don't know. I, I always find that it's a bit disingenuous and I-- yes, yes, y-you know, it can help you scale your reach or whatever, but I don't know, like using AI to pretend to be you to reply to people and have conversations, it just doesn't quite feel right to me. So anything where, yeah, you're, you're, you're, pulling the wool over people's eyes pretending to be you when it's not you, and using an AI to do that doesn't quite sit right with me.
[00:11:12] But I'm sure there's other people who say it's a hugely effective approach and that kind of thing. But I don't know. What do you think of that approach, Mike?
[00:11:19] Mike Allton: Oh, I, I completely agree, and I think the people who say it's hugely effective are the ones who are playing it as a numbers game. Mm-hmm. Uh, and, and they're okay at turning off or, or even offending some people because they're achieving so much more click-throughs and, and maybe even revenue, uh, because, you know, they're just hitting, thousands of people instead of dozens of people like a normal BDR, AE might.
[00:11:43] In fact I was interviewing, uh, Will DePrincipe from Thoughtly, and they're an AI voice agent company. Mm. So, you know, not text. But we were talking about, companies using AI systems to speak as a human might to other humans. Mm. And he and I had a conversation about this very point, 'cause he and I both agreed that AI needs to be transparent.
[00:12:04] This is an AI agent- Mm ... that you're talking to, and I'm here to help you. Mm. But at any point, if you want a human, by all means speak to a human. And we also got into and drilled down into specific use cases. Um, like I think a lot of the examples that you're talking about are, are cold outreach. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:21] Whereas what Will and I talked about on the podcast with agents, with voice agents, uh, were more like reaching out to folks that had already been in touch with you. Mm-hmm. Maybe it was a lead six months ago that went cold. You know, let's shoot them an email, let's get them on a call, that sort of thing.
[00:12:35] Because it was a really cool use case. Mm. If you emailed all of your prospects today, well, all of your pro- past prospects. Let's say you've got 5,000 contacts in a list, they're cold. You would not invite all 5,000 to call you the moment they got that email because you, Dan, you can't answer 5,000 phone calls.
[00:12:53] You couldn't even answer- I know that ... 100 phone calls, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, if you play the numbers, you know, only a fraction of them are gonna open, and a smaller fraction are gonna wanna pick up the phone and call. Mm-hmm. But we, and I think you and I would agree with this, from a marketing perspective, if you can pique someone's attention and give them the opportunity to pick up the phone right then and there, and talk to somebody right then and there when they're interested, rather than clicking a Calendly link and scheduling some time to talk in the future, the former's the more effective one.
[00:13:24] Mm-hmm. Uh, so it's really fascinating to me- Yeah ... uh, in that particular approach, but I agree with you.
[00:13:29] Dan Knowlton: Yeah, I like... I do really like that approach of managing expectations and being honest upfront. I think then that that, like, puts people's guards down because you're being very honest and open. And if they don't wanna talk to an AI agent, they can just hang up and not talk to them.
[00:13:41] But the, the worst thing would be that AI agent pretending to be a human, and then- Yeah ... the potential customer realizing that, and then it's kind of disingenuous, and you don't, then don't trust the brand that's using the AI. So I, I like that. I like that approach of managing expectations upfront. I also- Yeah, yeah
[00:13:59] just, just to your, your previous question about what, what should you use AI for versus humans. Um, I think that, like, AI shouldn't replace- humans, it, it enhances them. Like there's, there's been lots of conversations I've had with other agency owners about how we're integrating AI into our agency and, you know, will it replace team members and stuff?
[00:14:23] And, and my honest thing is like, no, I, I still see huge value in, value in the, the experience that our team has, and then utilizing that human experience to then use AI to enhance what they're doing in a more efficient and effective way. Like, I'll give you an example. So one of our... We, we, we're always coming up with marketing campaign ideas for brands we're working with, and one of our one of our team came up with this idea, um, that was inspired by a Tango ad, like the orange drinks brand from the UK, Tango ad from the '90s that was really funny and creative.
[00:14:59] And then that, they had some idea that can come up with this new brand we, that, that can... Sorry, that was inspiration for this new brand we were working with. And then they used AI to build that out. And it was that human experience of seeing that ad in the '90s that really made them feel something to then fast-forward, 20-plus years to now be working at our agency and to, to s- and to connect the dots of here's a brand that this idea I saw 20 years ago could work for that made me feel something.
[00:15:26] I don't think AI can emulate that human experience at plus AI. Do you know what I mean? Like- Mm-hmm ... if your team member who had that experience was to use AI to help come up with a creative campaign for a client versus random person off the street that didn't have that ex- that life experience and just tried to prompt AI, our team member would have a better output because they've got all that life experience, they've worked in the world of marketing.
[00:15:52] Do you know what I mean? So it's, it's an interesting one.
[00:15:56] Mike Allton: Yeah, absolutely. That, that human input is essential. There's a bit that I do in, in one of my, my workshops where I am reciting a monologue that Darth Vader gave in Star Wars- Mm ... in a Shakespearean way. And AI helped me write it, helped me translate, you know, what Darth Vader was saying in this particular scene in, in, old Shakespearean English, right?
[00:16:21] But it was my love of Star Wars and Shakespeare that, that put those things together and said- Mm ... "Hey, could we do something like this to demonstrate- Mm ... AI's creativity, uh, and, and master of language?" So you're right. The, the human's gotta be in there. I, I agree. I don't believe humans h- or AI's here to replace humans, and yet I think, I suspect, when you're talking to the actual revenue teams, you might be seeing some of that pushback or maybe even that fear.
[00:16:47] How do you prevent like team resistance when it comes to redesigning things that they've been doing forever, their established workflows, and you're coming in trying to insert AI and automation?
[00:16:59] Dan Knowlton: I think it's a challenge. I really do think... And we're, we're currently living this challenge now, 'cause we- we've certainly had pushback.
[00:17:05] You know, we've been using AI since ChatGPT came out. I think it was, was it, like, 2018 or something? Around then, in small ways. But as the years have gone on, we've been using it more and more, and we had a real wake-up call last year when I saw a Liquid Death ad that was purely created through AI, through prompts, and I thought it was brilliant.
[00:17:30] And I thought it was to a standard where we as a marketing agency should really start not being concerned, I guess, but, like, we really need to think how are we utilizing this technology to improve what we're doing. 'Cause there's lots of other agencies that originally pushed back with AI. Like, "No, it's the devil.
[00:17:49] You don't wanna use that." You know, "You want humans to do everything." Which I get. You know, people don't like change. It's like that book, Who Moved My Cheese?, where, with the mice, it's like- Right ... people don't like change. But for us, I saw that ad last year, and I was like, "Crap." That's where it is now. In a number of years, you're gonna be able to just create anything in any way you want at the click of a button.
[00:18:12] We need to think how are we using this technology to create better outputs than other agencies who are using it. So, I guess... And, and, and that kinda ties into, to your question of how do you then prevent pushback. So I think the first thing was really educating our team on where the world is going and where this technology's going and what it means, like, showing them what is currently possible with this technology.
[00:18:37] Like, and some of them were shocked. We've had team members who have studied film production, for a large part of their lives, and seeing that you can type something into a piece of software and get it to create something that you'd normally have to go and get a lo- source a location, actors, and go and actually shoot the thing.
[00:18:57] I think that was the first thing, showing them what's possible with this technology to show them, like, "Look, we really need to figure this out so that we stay ahead of all of these other production companies and marketing agencies who don't quite get this yet." So that's the first thing, I think, to overcoming that pushback is, like, educating them and showing them, "This is what's possible.
[00:19:15] We need to understand this."
[00:19:18] Mike Allton: Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Uh, MAICON brought, uh, PJ Ace into their event last year to kind of show us, you know, what he'd done, uh, in terms of creating entirely AI-generated ads. That, that went huge, they went viral, and yet there's still incredible amounts of work that go into those ads and running the team and, and all those kinds of things.
[00:19:38] So there's still a lot of opportunity and need for humans to be in the loop. Folks, we're talking with Dan Knowlton about where so many AI implementations can go wrong. In a moment, we're gonna share where revenue leaders should get started, but a quick word about how to tackle shadow AI.
[00:19:52] Right now, your best people are drowning. They're buried in data entry, meeting prep, and internal reporting, the admin drag that kills momentum. To keep their heads above water, they're turning to AI tools you haven't approved. They aren't trying to be reckless. They are trying to be efficient. They are trying to hit the goals you set for them.
[00:20:15] But this shadow AI creates massive blind spots in your data security. You can't afford to ignore it, but you also can't afford to ban it. You need to architect it. I've created the Executive Guide to Shadow AI to help you bridge this gap. It's a blueprint for turning a security risk into a competitive advantage through proper governance.
[00:20:40] Don't fight the shadow, sanction it. Download the free guide today theaihat.com/shadow-ai. That's theaihat.com/shadow-ai.
[00:20:56] So Dan, let's, let's talk tools. What are some of the AI tools that you guys are using for yourselves or for your clients, and how do you evaluate, how that tool truly fits into some of the existing revenue workflows?
[00:21:10] Dan Knowlton: Yeah, so to go through some of the tools. I, I guess the, the first point is how do we identify tools that are actually gonna be effective? One is understanding the problem they're solving, which I, I said at the start. The second part is then trying and testing those tools to see if they effectively do that.
[00:21:25] And then it's kind of a, a process of trying and testing and seeing what works for you. So some of the tools that have really helped us, one, and pe- some people may have heard of these types of tools, but one is Fathom, which is like an AI meeting note-taker. There's obviously lots of AI meeting note-takers out there.
[00:21:43] I guess one of the things I really like about Fathom is it's got lots of different templates for how it takes notes depending on the context of the call. So I'll give you an example. I manage new, new business and growth for our agency, so I do a lot of calls with prospects, sales calls, that kind of thing.
[00:22:03] We use a qualification framework called MEDDPICC. Which is how we qualify an opportunity and, um, how best to pitch or present that opportunity. Now, with Fathom, it has a template for MEDDPICC. So I can ask questions around what success looks like, what are the specific outcomes and KPIs we need to hit to understand this is a success.
[00:22:26] Ask questions around budget and that kind of thing, and it will then take all of that information and frame it into our qualification framework and score that so that we know if this opportunity is, is a good fit for us and, and how qualified it is, and to understand the best steps to move forward.
[00:22:43] So that, that's one tool and that, that, that tool has saved us, or saved me personally, hours and hours and hours and hours, and it's, like we said earlier, Mike, it's enabled us to not miss anything because everything is transcribed. You know, there's n- nothing that we're gonna miss. It's all there. And you can also dow- then download the transcript from that and upload it to ChatGPT if you wanna do more with that.
[00:23:04] So that's one thing. Another tool is, well, I guess the one everyone talks about, ChatGPT. We use that a lot for, an example of how it ties in with Fathom, we create briefs from those sales calls. We create, we use... We've got a custom GPT to then turn that transcript into a brief for our creative team to come up with ideas to help solve the challenges that the prospect was talking about in the sales call.
[00:23:30] We also use ChatGPT to help bounce ideas off of. So, the, the point I made earlier about really ensuring that AI doesn't replace humans, it enhances our, us. In our creative sessions, we come up with ideas using our brains and then bounce those ideas off of ChatGPT to then help enhance them rather than the other way around.
[00:23:49] So, we do that. We also image generation tools. Our team have just started using a new tool called, higgsfield. Higgsfield. Yeah. Yes. So we've, we've u- used a whole variety of other kind of image and video creation tools, but they've been really impressed with Higgsfield.
[00:24:07] I don't know, I haven't used it personally, to be honest. Uh, but our team seem very impressed with the outputs from that. I don't know if you've had a go with Higgsfield before, Mike.
[00:24:16] Mike Allton: I have seen some of the outputs from Higgsfield. Yeah. I haven't tested it myself, but I follow folks like Matt Wolfe on Instagram- Mm
[00:24:22] and YouTube, so I've seen some of his demos- Of course ... of that. And I love that you mentioned Fathom because I- I'm a big Google client. We use Google at Agorapulse, where I still work, and so we've got Gemini built into Google Meet. Mm-hmm. So every, after every meeting, right, you can get those transcripts and everything like that, which At first I was like, "Oh, this is great.
[00:24:41] This is better than me having to go out and pay for a different tool." Mm-hmm. It's got it built in. Except that breaks any time you're on somebody else's meeting platform. Mm-hmm. If I'm meeting with an agency this afternoon as a, prospective partner, and we're on their Microsoft Teams account, my Gemini notetaker doesn't come with me there.
[00:25:01] Mm-hmm. So having an external tool like a Fathom or, uh, Otter.ai, like you said, there's a whole bunch. That, that's, that's great advice. So you've got some of these tools. Is, is there any framework, or what do you think about when you're evaluating a tool? Like, somebody comes to you, say, "Hey, you know, Dan, you should try using Higgs Field."
[00:25:19] What kinda goes through- Mm ... your mind before you dive into that?
[00:25:23] Dan Knowlton: I guess what goes into my mind is asking question around what does it do, what's your experience been with that tool, and how has it helped you? I think we're, we're constantly speaking to other marketers, agency owners who shout about lots of tools, and it's, it's kind of like vetting and filtering out those ones that just sound cool and fun versus, you know, what has it actually done for you.
[00:25:45] I think that's my, like, critical question. Uh, you know, what do you use it for, and how has it benefited you? And then I can understand, like, could that help us, basically. I think it's, it's not so much, like, a really structured framework, more like just, uh, anecdotally asking questions and figuring out, and then if it sounds like something...
[00:26:07] We actually ha- we do have a bit of a process. We have an internal Slack channel called AI that anyone in the business who finds something or use- so that's useful, then puts it into that Slack channel. We also speak it in our, about it in our Friday meetings. We've got, like, um, an element of the meeting where we talk about AI.
[00:26:22] But that's the kind of loose process, I, I guess, rather than it being super structured.
[00:26:28] Mike Allton: No, but that's great. That's exactly what so many other companies who are finding success with this are doing. They're creating that space within the organization to have open conversations about things that other people have tried.
[00:26:39] Because I've said this before, AI is so different from past technologies that we've experienced over the past decade or so. This isn't like Canva, where if you'd never heard of Canva and I said, "Hey, this is a tool to help you create images and video," okay, you got it. You understand what Canva- Mm-hmm ... is without even having to open it, right?
[00:26:57] Mm-hmm. It's a very nebulous space. You know, particularly the, the frontier models, the LLMs. You can do almost anything with ChatGPT or Gemini or Claude. So I'm, I'm wondering if you feel, though, that as, as you're doing these kinds of things, and, I mean, we all have that friend who's, like, on the forefront and they're sending us all these, you know- Mm-hmm
[00:27:15] YouTube Shorts and Instagram Reels about the latest, greatest things. Do you feel tension between wanting to try some of these things and wanting to do, like, your normal day-to-day activities, your client stuff? Is, is that tension for you?
[00:27:29] Dan Knowlton: Yeah. Yes. Yes. There, there is tension there. I guess I currently feel like I'm just not spending the time I should be on AI.
[00:27:38] Like, it's more of a where can I fit it in in my day-to-day of running the business, growing, you know, all the million different things I'm doing. I guess, I guess... I'll give you an example of one thing we've done in our business that's making this happen, you know, sharing that across the team versus just me spending all the time doing it.
[00:27:56] We've got this internal AI project that we kicked off near the end of last year, where our team are treating it as if it's a potential client project, where we're coming up with a whole business proposition and idea, launching a website, launching some kind of product offering to do with AI, and coming up with a whole marketing campaign around it.
[00:28:15] Um, and I guess there's a couple of reasons we're doing that. One, so that we enable our team to actually have the time to use these tools to learn about them, 'cause that's one key part of this. Two the- going through the motions of this will be really great for our team in learning and developing their skills.
[00:28:34] We're not necessarily expecting it to suddenly take off as a business, but I think it's more, like, going through the motions of using the tools, setting something up, and really deeply understanding how to then promote that to the world, and the lessons learned from that will be really effective. And three, everything that we- our team learns from this, we can pass on to our, our clients.
[00:28:52] Like, all the tools they discover, like, like Higgsfield that I mentioned, that's a tool that we discovered because of this project, trying to create some kind of video output that we couldn't use with other tools that they tested. So that's what we're doing to kind of make our team spend the time to fully understand this that's been really useful.
[00:29:12] Mike Allton: That sounds fascinating. I love this idea of, of having a very targeted pilot and experiment. So for the folks listening, the revenue leaders, we're talking about, you know, agency owners, CMOs, CROs, sales managers, and so on, and of course AEs and SDRs. What's the first workflow audit that you think they should run tomorrow morning to help them decide where they might actually apply some of these AI solutions?
[00:29:36] Dan Knowlton: Hmm. Good question. I guess the... My, my honest answer, Mike, is we don't have this all figured out. Like, I... It's been more of a test and learn process rather than having some kind of really structured framework that I wanna, that I can share with the audience. But I guess my, my, my answer based on what we've actually done is look at the things in your business where they're taking a lot of time.
[00:30:08] Do an audit of your team's resource. Where are they spending time that, And even your own time. Like, I did this activity before. I feel like I never have enough time in the day. I looked through my Google Calendar. Every day I have a Google Calendar, and every minute of every day is scheduled with what I do.
[00:30:23] And then at the end of that day, I update that to how I actually spent my time. Every week I then look back and think, "Is there something I'm doing that, one, I can delegate to our team, or two, I can delegate to AI?" Um, and I guess that's, that's the, the kind of loose process that, that we've got. It's not some crazily complex framework, but actually spending the time auditing how you spend your time and then asking yourself the logical question, could someone else do this?
[00:30:50] I even have actually screenshot my Google Calendar and used ChatGPT to do this for me as well and find things that I hadn't have thought of as well. So that's a kind of loose, non-advanced or techy explanation of what we've done, Mike. But hopefully it's useful to someone.
[00:31:08] Mike Allton: No, I, I, I'm, I'm gonna say, I mean, very, very transparently and honestly, that's great.
[00:31:12] That's honestly the kind of response, the kind of insight that myself and I think everybody listening, they're looking for. You know, it's, it's nice sometimes to have a polished framework. It's great when I'm talking to an author maybe who's spent, like, 12 months thinking about these ideas. Yeah. But it's just as valuable to talk to people with boots on the ground who are doing it.
[00:31:31] Mm-hmm. "You know what? This is what I'm doing. This is what has worked for me or my clients-" Mm-hmm ... or whomever. So thank you, honestly- Yeah ... for sharing that. It's been really helpful.
[00:31:40] Dan Knowlton: AI, AI is just something we're trying to figure out on top of growing a business and all my current day jobs. Do you know what I mean?
[00:31:46] So it's like, the- these are the things that in the small amounts of time I have, that have been hugely effective. So hopefully, yeah, hopefully it's useful to people listening.
[00:31:54] Mike Allton: Well, that's the great thing. We're all in that same boat. Um, you know, there's, there's a small percentage of people that, you know, it's their job to figure out AI.
[00:32:02] The rest of us, the 99% of us, we have full-time jobs, and we're trying- ... to figure out while we're doing those things, while we're carrying a quota, how do we actually add AI to this to make our jobs easier, to make our lives a little less stressful? So thank you, Dan, for sharing that. For folks who wanna know about, more about you, maybe more about the agency work that you're doing, where can they go to connect with you?
[00:32:26] Dan Knowlton: Sure. So I guess two places. Our website, knowltonmarketing.co.uk is ... You can see all the case studies and examples of what we do, how we help brands. And my LinkedIn, just search Dan Knowlton, Dan K-N-O-W-L-T-O-N, on LinkedIn. I share lots of- content around marketing, lessons we're learning whilst, whilst running campaigns for some of the world's leading brands.
[00:32:47] Hopefully you find all that stuff interesting.
[00:32:50] Mike Allton: Fantastic. Thank you, Dan. Thank all of you for listening. Of course, I'll have all of Dan's links in the show notes below, including a link to his TikTok channel, because if you want to see exactly how creative Dan and his team are, follow him on TikTok. It's fantastic.
[00:33:02] And if you haven't yet talked to your team about how they're really using AI, Shadow AI, it's time. Learn what Shadow AI is, why you should lean into it, and how to proceed for free at theaihat.com/shadow-ai. Check it out. I'll see you in our next episode. Welcome to the Grid.
[00:33:19] That's a wrap on another episode of The AI Hat Podcast. I hope you gained some valuable insights and actionable strategies to boost your business with AI. If you enjoyed this show, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with your network. And don't forget to visit theaihat.com for more resources and to connect with me.
[00:33:38] Until next time, keep innovating, and remember, the future of business is human, and it's powered by AI.
